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Date: 2003-01 atari800xl.org comp.sys.atari.8bit
ANALOG issue #22 now digitized and online  
 
1.  rtdos  
 More options Jan 1 2003, 12:12 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: r@yahoo.com (rtdos) -
Date: 31 Dec 2002 07:12:59 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 1 2003 12:12 am
Subject: Re: ANALOG issue #22 now digitized and online
| | | | | |
yea, both were awesome shoot 'em ups.  sound fx were amazing, weren't they ?


 
Reading Atari disks on PC  
 
1.  Michael Current  
 More options Jan 1 2003, 1:33 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Michael Current <mcurr@carleton.edu> -
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:33:56 -0600
Local: Wed, Jan 1 2003 1:33 am
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |
In article <a57ea28d.0212231604.4f00e@posting.google.com>,

 mel@my-deja.com (Lee) wrote:
> The utilities referred to might have worked on an a Pre-XT computer, but
> they do not work at all on anything one also uses for the internet for an
> example.

My AMD-K6 350 running Win-98 has a 5.25" floppy drive that works great with
MyUTIL, and I also use this PC to access the Internet. :)

It depends on your floppy drive, not the vintage of your PC.

--
Michael Current   mailto:mcurr@carleton.edu
8-bit Atari FAQ and Vendor Lists  
S.P.A.C.E.     telnet://spacebbs.no-ip.com/


 
 
2.  Lee  
 More options Jan 1 2003, 2:34 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: mel@my-deja.com (Lee) -
Date: 31 Dec 2002 21:34:05 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 1 2003 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |

Michael Current <mcurr@carleton.edu> wrote in message <>...
> In article <a57ea28d.0212231604.4f00e@posting.google.com>,
>  mel@my-deja.com (Lee) wrote:

> > The utilities referred to might have worked on an a Pre-XT computer, but
> > they do not work at all on anything one also uses for the internet for an
> > example.

> My AMD-K6 350 running Win-98 has a 5.25" floppy drive that works great with
> MyUTIL, and I also use this PC to access the Internet. :)

> It depends on your floppy drive, not the vintage of your PC.

Ok, I'll go ahead and pick my nit all the way so I might explain what I
meant by 'internet access'.  I use my PC for internet too, and you are
right, having a good 5 1/4" drive is half the battle, but its not the
whole fight at all.  Any PC that could do the internet won't have a
floppy controller that can do FM which means Anadisk won't work for
Atari SD or ED.  Its these programs I refer to that just don't work
on today's computers due the lack of a pin being used on the I/O chip
which has come to incompass the floppy disk functions.  It used to be
just a floppy disk controller, now the function has grown to IDE drives
and many more devices.

I don't doubt that MyUtil does work flawlessly when you format transfer
disks on the PC first, just like Ataridsk but more 'DOS' like, I'm sure.
That was never my point, the point was to read _Atari_ formatted disks
on the PC using _any_ method possible.  MyUtil will do that - but only
marginally and if its a big file or in the wrong place on the Atari disk
it won't do it all unless you can make a copy of the disk and swap that
one in at the appropriate time.

MyUtil (PCXFer) is the only program that can read Atari formatted disks
with the above restrictions and that is using DD only.  There is nothing
that works for ED or SD disks on todays 'internet ready' computers due to
the lack of FM support in those floppy disk controllers.  You have to go
way back to get a computer with FM capability, so my question is how far
do you need to go back before Anadisk will read in an Atari SD or ED
disk?

Turns out its not the drive - its the controller.


 
 
3.  Rod Smith  
 More options Jan 2 2003, 12:54 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: rodsm@nessus.rodsbooks.com (Rod Smith) -
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 15:54:01 GMT
Local: Thurs, Jan 2 2003 12:54 am
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |
In article <a57ea28d.0212312134.1253c@posting.google.com>,
        mel@my-deja.com (Lee) writes:

This might be true for some, and perhaps even most, modern computers, but
it's not true for all computers capable of Internet access. I've used
AnaDisk to read SS disks on a system with an AMD K6 233 CPU and a VIA
chipset (I don't recall the precise model number). It worked fine. I've
never tried ED disks, but the documentation I've read on the subject says
it won't work reliably.

--
Rod Smith, rodsm@rodsbooks.com

Author of books on Linux, networking, & multi-OS configuration


 
 
4.  richard cortese  
 More options Jan 2 2003, 2:52 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "richard cortese" <ricor@earthlink.net> -
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:52:56 GMT
Local: Thurs, Jan 2 2003 2:52 am
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |

"Rod Smith" <rodsm@nessus.rodsbooks.com> wrote in message

...
<snip>

> This might be true for some, and perhaps even most, modern computers, but
> it's not true for all computers capable of Internet access.

There are always shell accounts too. I have heard that they are no longer
being offerred by a lot of services. I know for my Netmagic account it costs
extra and has been seriously nerfed.

Lowest level I ever accessed the internet on was with a Heath 19 terminal.
The H19 was better then the Atari because of the 80 column screen.


 
 
5.  Rod Smith  
 More options Jan 2 2003, 11:54 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: rodsm@nessus.rodsbooks.com (Rod Smith) -
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 02:54:01 GMT
Local: Thurs, Jan 2 2003 11:54 am
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |
In article <YVFQ9.7845$9N5.825@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
        "richard cortese" <ricor@earthlink.net> writes:

> "Rod Smith" <rodsm@nessus.rodsbooks.com> wrote in message
> ...
> <snip>
>> This might be true for some, and perhaps even most, modern computers, but
>> it's not true for all computers capable of Internet access.

> There are always shell accounts too. I have heard that they are no longer
> being offerred by a lot of services. I know for my Netmagic account it costs
> extra and has been seriously nerfed.

True. For that matter, there are TCP/IP stacks and various Internet
access tools for DOS, even including Web browsers (check out Arachne at
, for instance; it's supposed to run on an 8088
CPU). For that matter, there's a guy who claims to be working on a TCP/IP
stack and Web browser for Atari 8-bits -- check
for details. (AFAICT,
there's no actual code yet, and I'm skeptical that anything useable will
come of it, but who knows....)

In any event, the "capable of Internet access" (or "could do the
internet," as Lee put it) criterion is a poor one when it comes to Atari
disk access. The capability to read FM disks is a function of the disk
controller circuitry, which is in the motherboard chipset on modern x86
systems. It's present in at least some moderately recent chipsets, as I
and others have said. I can't promise that it's available in all, or even
in any, chipsets being sold as new today. At worst, it should be possible
to add it to any system with an ISA bus by adding an old floppy
controller card. I don't know if such cards exist for the PCI bus,
though.

--
Rod Smith, rodsm@rodsbooks.com

Author of books on Linux, networking, & multi-OS configuration


 
 
6.  Andreas Magenheimer  
 More options Jan 6 2003, 9:49 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Andreas Magenheimer <magea@students.uni-mainz.de> -
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:49:17 +0100
Local: Mon, Jan 6 2003 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |
Hmmm,
so lets assume you were a terrorist. You could easily send texts and
other stuff via 5,25" FM formatted disks and the CIA, FBI and NSA would
not be able to read those disks ?!? What a shame...  -Andreas.

Rod Smith schrieb:


 
 
7.  Michael Current  
 More options Jan 2 2003, 11:53 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Michael Current <mcurr@carleton.edu> -
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 08:53:11 -0600
Local: Thurs, Jan 2 2003 11:53 pm
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |
In article <a57ea28d.0212312134.1253c@posting.google.com>,

 mel@my-deja.com (Lee) wrote:
> I don't doubt that MyUtil does work flawlessly when you format transfer
> disks on the PC first, just like Ataridsk but more 'DOS' like, I'm sure.
> That was never my point, the point was to read _Atari_ formatted disks
> on the PC using _any_ method possible.  MyUtil will do that - but only
> marginally and if its a big file or in the wrong place on the Atari disk
> it won't do it all unless you can make a copy of the disk and swap that
> one in at the appropriate time.

My MyUTIL experience regarding whether better to format the disk with the PC or
with the Atari has been more mixed than that.  I can recall where it sometimes
seemed to make a difference, but I know I've had plenty of success either way.

Here's some MyUTIL advice already in the FAQ on this particular topic:

Hans Breitenlohner:
2. If the PC drive is a 1.2M drive there is the additional problem of the
   track width.
   The following is generally true in the PC world:
    - disks written on 360k drives can be read on either drive
    - blank disk formatted and written on 1.2M drives can be read on
      either kind
    - disks written on a 360k drive, and overwritten on a 1.2M drive,
      can be read reliably only on a 1.2M drive.
    - disks previously formatted on a 360k drive, or formatted as 1.2MB,
      and then reformatted on a 1.2M drive to 360k, can be read reliably
      only on a 1.2M drive.
    (all this assumes you are using DD media, not HD).

   Solution: Use a 360k drive if you can.  If not, format disks on the
   Atari for Atari to PC transfers, format truly blank disks on the PC
   for PC to Atari transfers.

Jon D. Melbo sums it up this way:
   So a basic rule of themb when sharing 360KB floppies among 360KB &
   1.2MB drives is: Never do any writes with a 1.2MB drive to a disk that
   has been previously written to in a 360KB drive....UNLESS... you only
   plan on ever using that disk in the 1.2Mb drive from then on out. Of
   course a disk can be reformated in a particular drive any time for use
   in that drive.   As long as you follow that rule, you can utilize the
   backwards compatible 360KB modes that most 1.2MB drives offer.

> MyUtil (PCXFer) is the only program that can read Atari formatted disks
> with the above restrictions and that is using DD only.

There's also the newer AtariDsk by Hiassoft, available at

I've never tried AtariDsk (being perfectly content with MyUTIL), but people
have said it's a big improvement over UTIL/MyUTIL, though with basically the
same capabilities.

> Turns out its not the drive - its the controller.

Point taken, thanks.

--
Michael Current   mailto:mcurr@carleton.edu
8-bit Atari FAQ and Vendor Lists  
S.P.A.C.E.     telnet://spacebbs.no-ip.com/


 
 
8.  Lee  
 More options Jan 3 2003, 1:55 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: mel@my-deja.com (Lee) -
Date: 2 Jan 2003 20:55:52 -0800
Local: Fri, Jan 3 2003 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: Reading Atari disks on PC
| | | | | |

Thank you for posting that accurate info on the 360k vs 1.2 meg drive
issue - a subject that also belongs in the Atari to PC disk transfer
arena.  While Ataridsk _is_ a big improvement over MyUtil in ease of
use, it does not read Atari formatted disks like MyUtil can.  It also
does not claim to, one must always format the disk to be used for
transfers on the PC with Ataridsk first - no exceptions.  One rather
neat deal with these Ataridsk formatted disks is that they _will_
boot on the Atari system, but only on modified drives and they only
show an Ataridsk title screen.  Not of much use, but still a neat
trick.

 
help! software for disk drive xf551 modified in 3.5  
 
1.  Matthias Reichl  
 More options Jan 1 2003, 1:36 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Matthias Reichl <usenet-20021@hias.horus.com> -
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:36:57 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Wed, Jan 1 2003 1:36 am
Subject: Re: help! software for disk drive xf551 modified in 3.5
| | | | | |
Hi!

On 30 Dec 2002 00:01:23 -0800, Lee wrote:

> "arnaud33" <lanseau.arn@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message <>...
>> I have a disk drive xf551 modified in 3.5 inches.
>> How to create a compatible diskette 3.5 atari 800xl to test it?
>> exist a program on PC which make it possible to make diskette atari 3.5
>> inches with files atr
>> Sorry, for my bad speak english ( i am french ).

>> Cordially,
>> Arnaud

> I'm thinking WriteAtr will do the job you need.

> Hiassoft home page (Ataridsk - WriteATR)
>

If you already downloaded WriteAtr V0.92, please visit my webpage again
and get V0.92a.

I fixed an important bug in V0.92a: in 720k / XF551 mode only 180k were
read and written! This is just the mode you should be using with a
3.5" modified XF551, so writing/reading images larger than 180k will
just fail...

Thanks to Mr.Bacardi (who discovered this bug), I was able to fix it
back in august, but then I think I forgot to upload it to my webpage...

Sorry for any inconvenience & a happy new year (at least in a few
hours here in Salzburg :-) ,

Hias


 

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