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Date: 2003-10 atari800xl.org comp.sys.atari.8bit
WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos  
 
1.  Vidar Olavesen  
 More options Oct 1 2003, 3:19 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Vidar Olavesen" <h@nmi.no> -
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:19:35 +0200
Local: Wed, Oct 1 2003 3:19 am
Subject: WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos
| | | | | |
I am desperately wanting an Atari, which can run the demos needing 320Kb and
512Kb (are there even bigger demos ? Seem to remember one needing 1024Kb)
and it should be a PAL machine. Anyone has one for sale ? Also would like to
buy a Black Box with drives (isn't there a floppy interface for it too ?)

Recommendations on where to look or offers are greatly welcome!

Have an Atarian day and take Atarian care


 
 
2.  William Kendrick  
 More options Oct 1 2003, 3:55 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: b@newbreedsoftware.com (William Kendrick) -
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:53:09 GMT
Local: Wed, Oct 1 2003 3:53 am
Subject: Re: WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos
| | | | | |

Vidar Olavesen <h@nmi.no> wrote:
> I am desperately wanting an Atari, which can run the demos needing 320Kb and
> 512Kb (are there even bigger demos ? Seem to remember one needing 1024Kb)
> and it should be a PAL machine. Anyone has one for sale ? Also would like to
> buy a Black Box with drives (isn't there a floppy interface for it too ?)

Hey Vidar.

Note that it's typically not too hard to get an NTSC Atari to run in PAL
by just swapping out the ANTIC chip.

Unfortunately, some demos actually check the OS ROM for a particular
value to see if it's a PAL machine or not, and then refuse to run if
they are.  *grumble*  I'd rather have a warning than a refusal. :^P

If you can find an NTSC 320K or 512K Atari XL, you can probably just
stick a PAL ANTIC in there, adjust the VHOLD on your monitor, and be set.
It won't be EXACTLY the same (colors may be off?), but things won't crash
and timings will be right.

I've stuck a PAL ANTIC in my Atari 800XL for my demo at the Vintage Comp Show,
since I'll be mostly showing some of the new demos (e.g., up to 10-15yrs old ;)

-bill!

--
b@newbreedsoftware.com                           Got kids?  Get Tux Paint!
     


 
 
3.  Vidar Olavesen  
 More options Oct 1 2003, 8:49 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Vidar Olavesen" <h@nmi.no> -
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:50:07 +0200
Local: Wed, Oct 1 2003 8:50 am
Subject: Re: WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos
| | | | | |

> Hey Vidar.

Hey, there Mr. Nice Guy! Still sure you don't want to get paid for your
generous Computer Eyes offer ? I can't believe you gave it to me and I'd be
happy to pay you some.

> Note that it's typically not too hard to get an NTSC Atari to run in PAL
> by just swapping out the ANTIC chip.

No soldering ?

> Unfortunately, some demos actually check the OS ROM for a particular
> value to see if it's a PAL machine or not, and then refuse to run if
> they are.  *grumble*  I'd rather have a warning than a refusal. :^P

Bastards ;-)

> If you can find an NTSC 320K or 512K Atari XL, you can probably just
> stick a PAL ANTIC in there, adjust the VHOLD on your monitor, and be set.
> It won't be EXACTLY the same (colors may be off?), but things won't crash
> and timings will be right.

You think that's easier than finding a PAL one ? Might consider that. How
hard is it to get RAM into the machines ? I have a couple of unmodified
800XL's. Would it be soldering involved there ?

> I've stuck a PAL ANTIC in my Atari 800XL for my demo at the Vintage Comp
Show,
> since I'll be mostly showing some of the new demos (e.g., up to 10-15yrs
old ;)

> -bill!

Thanks for the info! Appreciate that!

Take Atarian care, Bill!


 
 
4.  William Kendrick  
 More options Oct 3 2003, 10:05 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: b@newbreedsoftware.com (William Kendrick) -
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:00:16 GMT
Local: Fri, Oct 3 2003 10:00 am
Subject: Re: WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos
| | | | | |

Vidar Olavesen <h@nmi.no> wrote:
>> Note that it's typically not too hard to get an NTSC Atari to run in PAL
>> by just swapping out the ANTIC chip.

> No soldering ?

Not if they're socketed! :^)  My 1200XL and 800XL were both.
It's sometimes a little hard to pull them out.  I use a screwdriver for
leverage.  Most of you would probably faint watching me. ;^)

<snip>

> Bastards ;-)

It could be as easy as finding and changing one byte in the demo's
binary. >:^)

Good luck finding it, tho! :^(  So many demos use compression & stuff.
It might be easier to just hack a PAL ROM, either in software (probably
wouldn't work with most of these newfangled demos) or by burning a ROM
replacement.  (Don't ask me how!)

<snip>

> You think that's easier than finding a PAL one ? Might consider that. How
> hard is it to get RAM into the machines ? I have a couple of unmodified
> 800XL's. Would it be soldering involved there ?

Soldering here, yes.  I've never done it.  My 800XL and 1200XL have 256K
inside.  (Bob Woolley still has my 1200XL!)  I didn't do the upgrades, tho...

Gotta run,

-bill!

--
b@newbreedsoftware.com                           Got kids?  Get Tux Paint!
     


 
 
5.  jim  
 More options Oct 16 2003, 8:21 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "jim" <sup8p@mail.cth.com.au> -
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:21:23 GMT
Local: Thurs, Oct 16 2003 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos
| | | | | |

> Note that it's typically not too hard to get an NTSC Atari to run in PAL
> by just swapping out the ANTIC chip.

> Unfortunately, some demos actually check the OS ROM for a particular
> value to see if it's a PAL machine or not, and then refuse to run if
> they are.  *grumble*  I'd rather have a warning than a refusal. :^P

As far as I am aware, the only value to tell A PAL from a NTSC machine is in
GTIA. Maybe swap that one as well and see what you get

James


 
 
6.  Thomas Richter  
 More options Oct 16 2003, 10:02 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Thomas Richter <t@cleopatra.math.tu-berlin.de> -
Date: 16 Oct 2003 13:02:52 GMT
Local: Thurs, Oct 16 2003 10:02 pm
Subject: Re: WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos
| | | | | |

Hi,

>> Note that it's typically not too hard to get an NTSC Atari to run in PAL
>> by just swapping out the ANTIC chip.

>> Unfortunately, some demos actually check the OS ROM for a particular
>> value to see if it's a PAL machine or not, and then refuse to run if
>> they are.  *grumble*  I'd rather have a warning than a refusal. :^P
> As far as I am aware, the only value to tell A PAL from a NTSC machine is in
> GTIA. Maybe swap that one as well and see what you get

Absolutey correct, GTIA keeps the PAL/NTSC register and the Os rom reads it
from there. However, besides the GTIA PAL and NTSC machines differ in other
aspects. For example, on PAL machines an additional oscillator of 5/4 of the
main frequency is present to generate the color frequencies needed to drive
GTIA. There is no such circuit in NTSC Ataris. Besides, this factor of 5/4 is
also the reason why you don't get "artifacted colors" on PAL machines (or,
at least, not very good ones.)

So long,
        Thomas


 
 
7.  Andreas Magenheimer  
 More options Oct 2 2003, 4:17 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Andreas Magenheimer <magea@students.uni-mainz.de> -
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:17:49 +0200
Local: Thurs, Oct 2 2003 4:17 am
Subject: Re: WTB : PAL Atari 8-bit with enough RAM to run demos
| | | | | |
Hello Vidar,
afaik there is no demo, that requires 512k extra RAM and just one demo,
that requires 1024k extra RAM. The one demo for 1088k computers is a
german demo, called "1MB Raytracing demo", and it requires a klaus
Peters 1 Megabyte Ramdisk (it will not work on any other Ramdisk,
because of the strange and non-standard bank-switching method, the KP
Ramdisk uses). Besides, this demo runs off of 8 bootdiskettes, with or
without (?) speeder and takes 17 minutes of loading time...

The reason to have 512k extra RAM (or 576k machines) might be to run
both demo variants, that a) require 26AE (Compyshop and Megaram RDs) or
b) 8ACE (Newell, Rambo, Toms, S.Peterson, etc.) Ramdisk blocks. In my
collection of demos, I have approx. 60% that run only on 26AE ramdisks,
20% that run on both Ramdisks and approx. 20% that run only on 8ACE
ramdisks (speaking of 320k demos here; the 128k demos will of course run
fine on both ramdisk types; also most 192k demos run fine on both
ramdisk types). in other words, if you have 320k of RAM you might be
restricted to one side, if you have 576k or more you can run almost all
demos. Only the mentioned 1MB-demo will not run and the Video-Blitz demo
also will not run, since it requires separate antic access (maybe one
can fix this)...
greetings, Andreas.

P.S.: I first had a 320k atari with 26AE ramdisk, then I installed a
switch, to switch the rambanks between 26AE and 8ACE mode, until I
finally upgraded to 576k RAM. If you already have 320k RAM, why not
install a simple switch ?!?  I found out, that some few games and apps
that did run fine with 320k, do not run with 576k RAM anymore (so I
installed a switch again, to switch down to 320k RAM)...

Vidar Olavesen schrieb:


 
The ATARI 8 Bit is better than the ST  
 
1.  Mike Freeman  
 More options Oct 1 2003, 4:06 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st, comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: m@freeman-studio.com (Mike Freeman) -
Date: 30 Sep 2003 12:04:44 -0700
Local: Wed, Oct 1 2003 4:04 am
Subject: Re: The ATARI 8 Bit is better than the ST
| | | | | |

That was uncalled for! It might be good if you showed some better
manners as well, especially since the person you replied to is very
likely *not* the person you think he is. If nothing else an apology
might be in order. Might be good to check e-mail addresses before
posting, too. Or, do like I do, and take each post as a separate
entity. If the person you are replying to uses bad manners and bad or
abusive language in their post, deal with it then if you want, and
then let it go. If they later post sensibly, then treat them with the
same respect that you would treat anyone else. And since there are no
doubt a number of similar, or even the same names floating around here
from time to time, it might be safer to just assume the best instead
of the worst.

                              Mike Freeman


 
 
2.  Haystack  
 More options Oct 1 2003, 6:34 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st, comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Haystack" <wil@grabyourshaft.de> -
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:18:40 +0100
Local: Wed, Oct 1 2003 6:18 am
Subject: Re: The ATARI 8 Bit is better than the ST
| | | | | |
Look Alan Freeman
you were  in the sixties and that is a long time ago, hello pop  pickers ,
just piss off and do something constructive with the few years you have left

 
 
3.  Mike Freeman  
 More options Oct 1 2003, 2:42 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st, comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: m@freeman-studio.com (Mike Freeman) -
Date: 30 Sep 2003 22:42:04 -0700
Local: Wed, Oct 1 2003 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: The ATARI 8 Bit is better than the ST
| | | | | |

"Haystack" <wil@grabyourshaft.de> wrote in message <>...
> Look Alan Freeman
> you were  in the sixties and that is a long time ago, hello pop  pickers ,
> just piss off and do something constructive with the few years you have left

Please re-read my last reply. It applies to this post as well. BTW,
does "Alan" look *anything* like "Mike"? My guess is, just another
troll, with a response like that. Until I hear some half-way
reasonable discussion, I will not reply again.

                         Mike Freeman


 

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