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Date: 2006-04 atari800xl.org comp.sys.atari.8bit
Black Box HD Format Error Codes  
 
1.  Larry  
 More options Apr 1, 12:18 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Larry" <LLppwh@aol.com> -
Date: 31 Mar 2006 07:18:18 -0800
Local: Sat, Apr 1 2006 12:18 am
Subject: Black Box HD Format Error Codes
| | | | | |
Hopefully someone knows about SCSI error codes...
I am trying to set up a new hard drive with my BB (Parity mod is
installed).
I have correctly entered the drive data.  The configuration data
appears to be correctly written to Sector 0.  But when I select the
controller (SCSI embedded drive) there is a long pause and then I get
the following error message/codes from the HDFMT.COM (the BB
formatter):

"Mode Select Command Failed!"
"70,26 is the error code."
"05 is the sense key."

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks,
Larry


 
 
2.  Mathy Van Nisselroy  
 More options Apr 11, 6:25 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Mathy Van Nisselroy <firstn@fullnamewithoutspaces.nl> -
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:25:10 +0200
Local: Tues, Apr 11 2006 6:25 am
Subject: Re: Black Box HD Format Error Codes
| | | | | |
Howdy Larry

In article <1143818298.049595.34@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

On HDD's that need the parity mod, you usually don't need to use
HDFMT.COM.

The error message looks familiar, but I can't remember under what
conditions it appeared.  A long pause usually happens, when the HDD can
not be accessed for some reason.  Is everything connected corrctly?  If
you want to, I can sent you a piece of software (very crued) that will
read the (512 byte) sectors of your HDD, so you can check if the
configuration data is written to sector zero correctly.

CU       Mathy


 
Atari 1050 Double Density  
 
1.  Jack Tseng  
 More options Apr 1, 2:29 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Jack Tseng" <tse@hotmail.com> -
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 00:29:07 -0500
Local: Sat, Apr 1 2006 2:29 pm
Subject: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |
Atari 1050 is an enhanced density drive. ICD, Indus, Rana, and Trak can make
the double density drive but why can not Atari company make the double
density drive?

Thanks!
Jack


 
 
2.  Docrotcod  
 More options Apr 1, 3:19 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Docrotcod" <rahb@cox.net> -
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 00:19:06 -0600
Local: Sat, Apr 1 2006 3:19 pm
Subject: Re: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |
The XF-551 was made by Atari and was double side/double density.

"Jack Tseng" <tse@hotmail.com> wrote in message

...


 
 
3.  Larry  
 More options Apr 1, 9:26 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Larry" <LLppwh@earthlink.net> -
Date: 1 Apr 2006 04:26:34 -0800
Local: Sat, Apr 1 2006 9:26 pm
Subject: Re: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |

Jack Tseng wrote:
> Atari 1050 is an enhanced density drive. ICD, Indus, Rana, and Trak can make
> the double density drive but why can not Atari company make the double
> density drive?

> Thanks!
> Jack

Atari was allegedly concerned about reliability in DD, and probably
with good reason.  For that era of drives, DD was/is much more
difficult to make consistently reliable.  Most any Atari drive in good
condition will read most any other Atari SD disk.  That can't be said
of DD.  My own experience with Rana, for instance, was many would not
even read their own disks in DD, let alone disks from on other drives.
So Atari "split the difference" electing to go with MFM, but 128 byte
sectors.  As it turned out, the 1050 (and at least its Tandon
mechanism) was reliable enough for DD.  Indus, too.  If you want to
better understand the perils, pitfalls, and other problems with drives,
read "Beneath Apple Dos."  Excellent and understandable, too.  
-Larry

 
 
4.  TJ  
 More options Apr 2, 12:43 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: TJ <tjat@dreamscape.com> -
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 22:43:44 -0500
Local: Sun, Apr 2 2006 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |

ICD sold the "US Doubler" 1050 upgrade that moved the drive up to full
double density. IIRC, it consisted of a replacement controller chip and
it seems like you had to check a jumper position. I had a drive with
that upgrade, as well as a couple of Indus drives and a couple of
XF551s. None had any trouble reading disks created with the others. (As
long as you stuck with single-sided in the XF, of course.) I used MyDOS
almost exclusively with my DD disks, if that makes any difference.

TJ


 
 
5.  Rick Cortese  
 More options Apr 2, 2:36 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Rick Cortese <ricor@earthlink.net> -
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:36:57 GMT
Local: Sun, Apr 2 2006 2:36 am
Subject: Re: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |

Jack Tseng wrote:
> Atari 1050 is an enhanced density drive. ICD, Indus, Rana, and Trak can make
> the double density drive but why can not Atari company make the double
> density drive?

> Thanks!
> Jack

As Larry said: Actually if I have it right, Atari had problems even
getting any drive to work. I'm not sure about which models but I am
pretty sure that at least one, like the 1050, was developed out of house
by an outfit like Tandon. At any rate, the 'not invented here' drive won
out when the in house drive failed. Compare the rock solid PC board,
shielding, etcetera, of the 1050 to something like the PC board made out
of saltine crackers in and flaky connectors in the XF551 to see what we
probably would have got from Atari.

I think I recall Bill Wilkinson saying the cost of the in house drives
like the 815 was so high that you could buy 2 1050s for the same price.
I imagine the 810 was an expensive drive to manufacture too and thus the
incentive to replace it.

The 1050 enhanced density is double density. Double density refers to
the bit density, ~bits per inch, laid down on the disk. There were all
kinds of single and double density formats back then.

Atari was limited in that they only had 256 bytes of RAM in a 6810 and a
PIA type chip. Can't exactly have a 6502 stack and still have 256 bytes
available for a write buffer. The XF gets away with it because the
different chip, 8052<?>, has a lot of general purpose registers that can
be used for storage of variables and what not.

I am of the opinion Atari would not have given us a drive with a lot of
ram in it even though it made sense. For one thing, you would only need
to add a single command to the ROM to get a drive that could defeat a
lot of copy protection schemes. Just something simple like load RAM with
code then JSR to it.


 
 
6.  Kryten  
 More options Apr 2, 5:46 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: "Kryten" <kryten_droid_obfustica@ntlworld.com> -
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 20:46:56 GMT
Local: Sun, Apr 2 2006 5:46 am
Subject: Re: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |

"Rick Cortese" <ricor@earthlink.net> wrote in message

...

> I am pretty sure that at least one, like the 1050, was developed out of
> house by an outfit like Tandon.

My 1050 had (c) Tandon on the EPROM sticker.

> Atari was limited in that they only had 256 bytes of RAM in a 6810 and a
> PIA type chip. Can't exactly have a 6502 stack and still have 256 bytes
> available for a write buffer. The XF gets away with it because the
> different chip, 8052<?>, has a lot of general purpose registers that can
> be used for storage of variables and what not.


There is RAM in the 6810 (128 bytes) and the 6532 (128 bytes RAM, I/O,
Timer) chips.


> I am of the opinion Atari would not have given us a drive with a lot of
> ram in it even though it made sense. For one thing, you would only need to
> add a single command to the ROM to get a drive that could defeat a lot of
> copy protection schemes. Just something simple like load RAM with code
> then JSR to it.

I copied a 'disk doubler' using a spare 6502, EPROM and a 2K RAM (6116).
It would be easy for me to fit more RAM than the Atari 800 had :-)

 
 
7.  Matthias Reichl  
 More options Apr 2, 11:16 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Matthias Reichl <usenet-200@hias.horus.com> -
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 16:16:28 +0200
Local: Sun, Apr 2 2006 11:16 pm
Subject: Re: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:36:57 GMT, Rick Cortese wrote:
> Atari was limited in that they only had 256 bytes of RAM in a 6810 and a
> PIA type chip. Can't exactly have a 6502 stack and still have 256 bytes
> available for a write buffer.

There exists an extension for the 1050 which does this trick: the
1050 Turbo module by Bernhard Engl (released in 1986). It's just a
replacement for the 1050 ROM and consists only of a ROM chip plus
some logic ICs to do bankswitching.

I've always wondered how this really worked (yes, you need a 256 byte
buffer if you want to use 256 byte sectors). Some time ago I talked
to Bernhard Engl and he explained the trick: If you can live with
a subroutine level of 1 you don't really need a stack. Instead he
just used the stack-pointer as kind of a function index.

The software in the 1050 (turbo) is quite straight forward and using
only one subroutine level is sufficient. Consider what happens eg
when reading a sector: first the 1050 receives the command frame,
then it has to read either 128 or 256 bytes from disk, then it
transmits the data frame (either 128 or 256 data bytes) to the
computer.

After command frame reception, the software knows if the sector
is either 128 or 256 bytes. So it sets up the stack pointer register
to, lets say, 1 for "send 128 bytes" and 2 for "send 256 bytes"
and then jumps to the read-disk-sector subroutine. At the end
of the routine, it checks the S register and then jumps to
the right "send bytes" routine.

The fine thing about the 1050 Turbo was that it was a lot cheaper
than all the other floppy-speeders (like happy/speedy/...). It cost
only 99 DEM and with 49 DEM more you could add a printer interface
(this interface was connected directly to the module inside the
1050). And, the 1050 Turbo came with one of the most sophisticated
backup tools. Very fine thing and it was also very popular here
in Europe (especially Germany and Austria).

so long,

Hias


 
 
8.  Jochen Schäfer  
 More options Apr 3, 6:39 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit
From: Jochen Schäfer <s@joschs-robotics.de> -
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:39:22 +0200
Local: Mon, Apr 3 2006 6:39 pm
Subject: Re: Atari 1050 Double Density
| | | | | |
Matthias Reichl schrieb:
> On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:36:57 GMT, Rick Cortese wrote:

>>Atari was limited in that they only had 256 bytes of RAM in a 6810 and a
>>PIA type chip. Can't exactly have a 6502 stack and still have 256 bytes
>>available for a write buffer.

...
> The fine thing about the 1050 Turbo was that it was a lot cheaper
> than all the other floppy-speeders (like happy/speedy/...). It cost
> only 99 DEM and with 49 DEM more you could add a printer interface
> (this interface was connected directly to the module inside the
> 1050). And, the 1050 Turbo came with one of the most sophisticated
> backup tools. Very fine thing and it was also very popular here
> in Europe (especially Germany and Austria).

Fine thing. I had one with the printer cable. But it's dead.

Is there any chance that Bernhard Engl would release the layout and
software for this thing?

Bye Jochen


 

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